Date   

Re: Recreations of the "truly missing" Suspense episodes

Litsey, Alan
 

Hi Joe,

 

Thank you so much for this wonderful information on missing Suspense episodes, and for all that you do. It is much appreciated.

 

Warm regards, Alan

 

From: main@OldTimeRadioResearchers.groups.io <main@OldTimeRadioResearchers.groups.io> on behalf of Joe Webb via groups.io <drjoewebb@...>
Date: Wednesday, December 29, 2021 at 5:56 AM
To: main@OldTimeRadioResearchers.groups.io <main@OldTimeRadioResearchers.groups.io>
Subject: [OldTimeRadioResearchers] Recreations of the "truly missing" Suspense episodes

I was reviewing the "truly missing" Suspense -- the ones that were performed just once on the series. I have scripts of one sort or another for each of them. It would be great if we could get them all recreated.

Here is the list with embedded links to known recreations. Are there other recreations we need to be aware of? Sadly the 1942 and 1943 broadcast recordings are likely lost -- and there is a possibility they were not recorded at all. There is hope for the others that AFRS recordings may be found one day.

   1942-07-01 - Episode 3 - The Life of Nellie James (based on Lizzie Borden)

   1942-07-08 - Episode 4 - Rope

   1942-07-15 - Episode 5 - Witness on the Westbound Limited

   1943-02-09 - Episode 27 - The Hangman Won't Wait (first half exists) (the complete performance has been done by Blue Hours Productions and ART, and was used in the BBC Appointment with Fear series as 1944-05-18 The Clock Strikes Eight for which a recording exists at the Internet Archive). AWF used John Dickson Carr's scripts and the Suspense theme at that time.

   1943-02-23 - Episode 29 - Will You Walk into My Parlor? (first half exists) (complete performance done by ART)

   1943-03-09 - Episode 31 - The Phantom Archer

   1946-02-28 - Episode 181- The Keenest Edge (was performed in the 1950s in Australia on Grace Gibson's "Tension" series, and by ART, and most recently by Project Audion [a Zoom video presentation on YouTube])

   1948-07-08 - Episode 296 - The Last Chance (first Auto-Lite broadcast)

   1950-06-15 - Episode 388 - Deadline (tentatively scheduled for March 2022 REPS Showcase)

   1951-11-12 - Episode 446 - The Mission of the Betta (this could be hard to recreate well -- a portion of the script is originally from Man Behind the Gun "Incident in the Pacific")

   1951-11-19 - Episode 447 - The Embezzler (done by ART)

   1956-01-03 - Episode 630 - The Eavesdropper (tentatively scheduled for May 2022 by Project Audion)

   1956-08-01 - Episode 660 - Massacre at Little Big Horn (was written by San Quentin prisoner Elmer Parsons, who stayed out of trouble after serving his time there while his fellow prisoner, the notorious scriptwriter and forger Edgar Scott Flohr, did not; this can be described as a psychological drama about the night before the massacre)

# # #
--


Monthly high

Ryan Ellett
 

Thanks group members for making December 2021 the busiest month on this forum since it started in late 2019! I understood that quantity of posts does not equal quality of posts and many of the earlier ones in the month were related to the Evelyn Winters set, but we've had some good questions and comments this month and a healthy amount of dialog. I'm planning to write a little year-end post so I won't say much else at this point.
Ryan


Re: Being the Ricardos

Richard Davenport
 

It’s utterly rare for movies to get the historical context correct. Anachronistic mistakes are common and Ralph. There are whole Memes on YouTube about people who enjoy finding gab some goofs in movies. I would only guess at the script writer was not familiar with terms for the 1950s. For example, an original TV show they slept in separate beds. You would never see a toilet. In the Brady Bunch I never had a bathroom built because I couldn’t show it per decency code or something like that. That’s why I love precode films. They are so much more interesting to watch.

There is nothing wrong with a little diversion of topic on any given day. We all have our thoughts to express as well as our opinions. This this group is defined by a multi generational membership. I was a child of the 70s but feel like I was born in the 20s. That just makes for a more interesting conversations.

Rick

On Dec 29, 2021, at 3:19 PM, Alan Kline <alan@...> wrote:

Thanks, Scott. No offense taken. I agree, it’s hard to understand why the staff of a 1950’s sitcom would have any reason to talk about firewalls, unless the episode was “Lucy Flies a DC-4”… :)

ak

On Dec 29, 2021, at 2:55 PM, Scott Mahan <scott@...> wrote:

Didn't mean to imply stupidity. Please don't take offense. Just saying that, given the definitions, what was said in the movie doesn't make a whole lot of sense in any context. Which, I guess, is probably the best argument for it actually being an anachronism. It's odd no matter how you look at it.




Re: Being the Ricardos

Alan Kline
 

Thanks, Scott. No offense taken. I agree, it’s hard to understand why the staff of a 1950’s sitcom would have any reason to talk about firewalls, unless the episode was “Lucy Flies a DC-4”… :)

ak

On Dec 29, 2021, at 2:55 PM, Scott Mahan <scott@...> wrote:

Didn't mean to imply stupidity. Please don't take offense. Just saying that, given the definitions, what was said in the movie doesn't make a whole lot of sense in any context. Which, I guess, is probably the best argument for it actually being an anachronism. It's odd no matter how you look at it.


Re: Being the Ricardos

Scott Mahan
 

Didn't mean to imply stupidity. Please don't take offense. Just saying that, given the definitions, what was said in the movie doesn't make a whole lot of sense in any context. Which, I guess, is probably the best argument for it actually being an anachronism. It's odd no matter how you look at it.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@OldTimeRadioResearchers.groups.io <main@OldTimeRadioResearchers.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alan Kline
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2021 2:15 PM
To: main@oldtimeradioresearchers.groups.io
Subject: Re: [OldTimeRadioResearchers] Being the Ricardos

Yes, Scott, I’m not as stupid as you imply. We were discussing context of the movie.

On Dec 29, 2021, at 2:07 PM, Scott Mahan <scott@...> wrote:

The IT term was derived (in the 1980's actually) from the Automotive/Aviation Engineering term. (You do know that part in your car which separates the passenger cabin from the engine compartment is the firewall, right?) That kind of firewall lets the good/necessary stuff in/out but keeps the bad stuff out, whether that be fire, shrapnel, or Russian hackers. A construction firewall is just to contain fire (well and sometimes also to keep the building from falling down) so it's just about fire. So ... listening to the show ... I'm not sure what the context of what was said was supposed to mean. Maybe it was an anachronism, maybe it wasn't. It is still a really fun watch.


Re: Being the Ricardos

Alan Kline
 

Yes, Scott, I’m not as stupid as you imply. We were discussing context of the movie.

On Dec 29, 2021, at 2:07 PM, Scott Mahan <scott@...> wrote:

The IT term was derived (in the 1980's actually) from the Automotive/Aviation Engineering term. (You do know that part in your car which separates the passenger cabin from the engine compartment is the firewall, right?) That kind of firewall lets the good/necessary stuff in/out but keeps the bad stuff out, whether that be fire, shrapnel, or Russian hackers. A construction firewall is just to contain fire (well and sometimes also to keep the building from falling down) so it's just about fire. So ... listening to the show ... I'm not sure what the context of what was said was supposed to mean. Maybe it was an anachronism, maybe it wasn't. It is still a really fun watch.


Brand new Yesterday USA Email Announce list

John Gassman
 

We'd like to tell you about a brand new email announce list for Yesterdayusa.
This list will keep you updated on special Old Time Radio interviews and programs throughout the year.
We just finished live programming last week for Christmas and we're playing New Years shows this week with live commentary.
Currently this is an announcelist. We hope that in the future we'll start a discussion list as well.

If you'd like to subscribe to the email list, send a blank email to yusa-announce+subscribe@groups.io

Thanks to Jeff Bishop for putting the email list together.




JAWS Certified, 2014.
http://www.FreedomScientific.com/Certification


Re: Being the Ricardos

Scott Mahan
 

The IT term was derived (in the 1980's actually) from the Automotive/Aviation Engineering term. (You do know that part in your car which separates the passenger cabin from the engine compartment is the firewall, right?) That kind of firewall lets the good/necessary stuff in/out but keeps the bad stuff out, whether that be fire, shrapnel, or Russian hackers. A construction firewall is just to contain fire (well and sometimes also to keep the building from falling down) so it's just about fire. So ... listening to the show ... I'm not sure what the context of what was said was supposed to mean. Maybe it was an anachronism, maybe it wasn't. It is still a really fun watch.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@OldTimeRadioResearchers.groups.io <main@OldTimeRadioResearchers.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alan Kline
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2021 1:17 PM
To: main@oldtimeradioresearchers.groups.io
Subject: Re: [OldTimeRadioResearchers] Being the Ricardos

I’m sure it was. The use of fire-resistant walls was certainly common in industrial building construction in the last century, particularly in “mill” construction which used lots of wood framing and flooring. Firewalls were common in streetcar barns, where fires could (and did) destroy many wood-bodied cars.

It’s hard to imagine IT people in the 1990’s creating the term out of whole cloth.

Alan

On Dec 29, 2021, at 11:07 AM, Bob Merritt <bobmerritt58@...> wrote:


Was it referenced as a firewall used in building construction?


Re: Being the Ricardos

Alan Kline
 

I’m sure it was. The use of fire-resistant walls was certainly common in industrial building construction in the last century, particularly in “mill” construction which used lots of wood framing and flooring. Firewalls were common in streetcar barns, where fires could (and did) destroy many wood-bodied cars.

It’s hard to imagine IT people in the 1990’s creating the term out of whole cloth.

Alan

On Dec 29, 2021, at 11:07 AM, Bob Merritt <bobmerritt58@...> wrote:


Was it referenced as a firewall used in building construction?


Re: Being the Ricardos

Steven Morris
 

I have been watching the film. I find it interesting that they chose to use the wrong set for the stories they were portraying. In the series the Ricardo's were in the smaller apartment when Lucy became pregnant.  They were in the old set when they did the fire bit and when Fred and Ethel sat on the piano bench. 

I enjoyed what I have seen so far.


Steven Morris


On Wed, Dec 29, 2021, 12:14 PM Ryan Ellett via groups.io <oldradiotimes=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I believe it was about a construction firewall, but now I can't remember the context. They used the term "showrunner" which I believe is a fairly recent term (1990s or later) and at least one other bit of language that didn't seem contemporary. But with any historical fiction I guess you have to give some leniency to make connections with modern audiences.
Ryan



The Old Time Radio Researchers
"Saving the Past for the Future"




On Wednesday, December 29, 2021, 11:07:18 AM CST, Bob Merritt <bobmerritt58@...> wrote:


Was it referenced as a firewall used in building construction?

Bob


On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 12:04 PM radiojayallen <radiojayallen@...> wrote:
I enjoyed the movle immensely being a huge Lucy fan but I noticed (I think two small errors, please corect me if I'm wrong).

1) At some point someone (I think Lucy??) said that filming it meant that viewers on the East Coast didn't have to see a blurry kinescope. Unless I'm mistaken, the East coast saw most shows live and the kinescope was aired on the West coast. Maybe I head that line wrong.

2) She used the word firewall and after checking it seems the word was a computer terms that didn't come into existence until the 90;s.

FWIW..still thought it was lots of fun.

Jay


Fw: [OldTimeRadioResearchers] Being the Ricardos

Randy Watts
 

Ed Wynn's 1949-50 TV series was done live in Los Angeles and kinescoped for the Midwest and East Coast. West Coast viewers saw the show live while East Coast viewers saw it a week or two later as a kinescope. Since most television viewers were on the East Coast at the time, it's generally believed that forcing East Coast viewers to see the Wynn show as a low-quality kinescope was one of the reasons it failed, That was why CBS wanted Lucy and Desi to move to New York and do their show live from there, and why Lucy and Desi wanted to do the show on film. So that no one had to see "I Love Lucy" as a low-quality kinescope. No matter where in the country you watched Lucy, you were going to see an image originally shot on high-quality 35mm film.

Randy

----- Forwarded Message -----

From: radiojayallen <radiojayallen@...>
To: "main@oldtimeradioresearchers.groups.io" <main@oldtimeradioresearchers.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2021, 11:04:43 AM CST
Subject: Re: [OldTimeRadioResearchers] Being the Ricardos

I enjoyed the movle immensely being a huge Lucy fan but I noticed (I think two small errors, please corect me if I'm wrong).

1) At some point someone (I think Lucy??) said that filming it meant that viewers on the East Coast didn't have to see a blurry kinescope. Unless I'm mistaken, the East coast saw most shows live and the kinescope was aired on the West coast. Maybe I head that line wrong.

2) She used the word firewall and after checking it seems the word was a computer terms that didn't come into existence until the 90;s.

FWIW..still thought it was lots of fun.

Jay


Our Miss Brooks audition/first episode

Ryan Ellett
 

The Eve Arden audition episode of Our Miss Brooks and the first episode used basically the same script. There were occasional small differences as I listened to them back-to-back. However, how can you determine which is the audition and which was the premier episode? If I remember correctly, the announcer invites the audience back the next week at the end of both recordings.
Ryan


Re: Being the Ricardos

Ryan Ellett
 

I believe it was about a construction firewall, but now I can't remember the context. They used the term "showrunner" which I believe is a fairly recent term (1990s or later) and at least one other bit of language that didn't seem contemporary. But with any historical fiction I guess you have to give some leniency to make connections with modern audiences.
Ryan

www.RyanEllett.com


The Old Time Radio Researchers
"Saving the Past for the Future"




On Wednesday, December 29, 2021, 11:07:18 AM CST, Bob Merritt <bobmerritt58@...> wrote:


Was it referenced as a firewall used in building construction?

Bob


On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 12:04 PM radiojayallen <radiojayallen@...> wrote:
I enjoyed the movle immensely being a huge Lucy fan but I noticed (I think two small errors, please corect me if I'm wrong).

1) At some point someone (I think Lucy??) said that filming it meant that viewers on the East Coast didn't have to see a blurry kinescope. Unless I'm mistaken, the East coast saw most shows live and the kinescope was aired on the West coast. Maybe I head that line wrong.

2) She used the word firewall and after checking it seems the word was a computer terms that didn't come into existence until the 90;s.

FWIW..still thought it was lots of fun.

Jay


Re: Being the Ricardos

Litsey, Alan
 

Hi Jay,

 

The word “firewall” jumped out at me too. I did find this info on the net, but can’t verify its accuracy: https://www.etymonline.com/word/firewall

 

Would be curious to know if Sorkin and the director discussed this reference.

 

Alan

 

From: main@OldTimeRadioResearchers.groups.io <main@OldTimeRadioResearchers.groups.io> on behalf of radiojayallen via groups.io <radiojayallen@...>
Date: Wednesday, December 29, 2021 at 11:04 AM
To: main@OldTimeRadioResearchers.groups.io <main@OldTimeRadioResearchers.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [OldTimeRadioResearchers] Being the Ricardos

I enjoyed the movle immensely being a huge Lucy fan but I noticed (I think two small errors, please corect me if I'm wrong).

1) At some point someone (I think Lucy??) said that filming it meant that viewers on the East Coast didn't have to see a blurry kinescope. Unless I'm mistaken, the East coast saw most shows live and the kinescope was aired on the West coast. Maybe I head that line wrong.

2) She used the word firewall and after checking it seems the word was a computer terms that didn't come into existence until the 90;s.

FWIW..still thought it was lots of fun.

Jay


Re: Being the Ricardos

 

Was it referenced as a firewall used in building construction?

Bob


On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 12:04 PM radiojayallen <radiojayallen@...> wrote:
I enjoyed the movle immensely being a huge Lucy fan but I noticed (I think two small errors, please corect me if I'm wrong).

1) At some point someone (I think Lucy??) said that filming it meant that viewers on the East Coast didn't have to see a blurry kinescope. Unless I'm mistaken, the East coast saw most shows live and the kinescope was aired on the West coast. Maybe I head that line wrong.

2) She used the word firewall and after checking it seems the word was a computer terms that didn't come into existence until the 90;s.

FWIW..still thought it was lots of fun.

Jay


Re: Being the Ricardos

radiojayallen
 

I enjoyed the movle immensely being a huge Lucy fan but I noticed (I think two small errors, please corect me if I'm wrong).

1) At some point someone (I think Lucy??) said that filming it meant that viewers on the East Coast didn't have to see a blurry kinescope. Unless I'm mistaken, the East coast saw most shows live and the kinescope was aired on the West coast. Maybe I head that line wrong.

2) She used the word firewall and after checking it seems the word was a computer terms that didn't come into existence until the 90;s.

FWIW..still thought it was lots of fun.

Jay


Recreations of the "truly missing" Suspense episodes

Joe Webb
 

I was reviewing the "truly missing" Suspense -- the ones that were performed just once on the series. I have scripts of one sort or another for each of them. It would be great if we could get them all recreated.

Here is the list with embedded links to known recreations. Are there other recreations we need to be aware of? Sadly the 1942 and 1943 broadcast recordings are likely lost -- and there is a possibility they were not recorded at all. There is hope for the others that AFRS recordings may be found one day.

   1942-07-01 - Episode 3 - The Life of Nellie James (based on Lizzie Borden)

   1942-07-08 - Episode 4 - Rope

   1942-07-15 - Episode 5 - Witness on the Westbound Limited

   1943-02-09 - Episode 27 - The Hangman Won't Wait (first half exists) (the complete performance has been done by Blue Hours Productions and ART, and was used in the BBC Appointment with Fear series as 1944-05-18 The Clock Strikes Eight for which a recording exists at the Internet Archive). AWF used John Dickson Carr's scripts and the Suspense theme at that time.

   1943-02-23 - Episode 29 - Will You Walk into My Parlor? (first half exists) (complete performance done by ART)

   1943-03-09 - Episode 31 - The Phantom Archer

   1946-02-28 - Episode 181- The Keenest Edge (was performed in the 1950s in Australia on Grace Gibson's "Tension" series, and by ART, and most recently by Project Audion [a Zoom video presentation on YouTube])

   1948-07-08 - Episode 296 - The Last Chance (first Auto-Lite broadcast)

   1950-06-15 - Episode 388 - Deadline (tentatively scheduled for March 2022 REPS Showcase)

   1951-11-12 - Episode 446 - The Mission of the Betta (this could be hard to recreate well -- a portion of the script is originally from Man Behind the Gun "Incident in the Pacific")

   1951-11-19 - Episode 447 - The Embezzler (done by ART)

   1956-01-03 - Episode 630 - The Eavesdropper (tentatively scheduled for May 2022 by Project Audion)

   1956-08-01 - Episode 660 - Massacre at Little Big Horn (was written by San Quentin prisoner Elmer Parsons, who stayed out of trouble after serving his time there while his fellow prisoner, the notorious scriptwriter and forger Edgar Scott Flohr, did not; this can be described as a psychological drama about the night before the massacre)

# # #
--


Re: Being the Ricardos

Randy Watts
 

A couple of photos I have show banners hanging on the back curtains, behind the cast. One is from Amos 'n' Andy and the other from Jack Benny. Very similar. Portrait of the star (s), title of the program, and the sponsor's name *very* prominently displayed.

The 1943 "Command Performance" short shows a large "Command Perfomance USA" sign hanging above the stage.

Randy



On Tuesday, December 28, 2021, 08:28:51 AM CST, Ryan Ellett via groups.io <oldradiotimes@...> wrote:


Thanks, Joe. I think what jumped out at me the most was the huge My Favorite Husband banner or screen hanging in the background of the stage. I guess I don't recall seeing something similar in other broadcasting photos but that doesn't mean it wasn't a thing.
Ryan

www.RyanEllett.com


The Old Time Radio Researchers
"Saving the Past for the Future"




On Tuesday, December 28, 2021, 07:50:43 AM CST, Joe Webb via groups.io <drjoewebb@...> wrote:


Just saw it last night and really enjoyed it.

Good YouTube video -- what they got right and wrong https://youtu.be/UyldUjIL7jM
Nothing wrong really, other than Sorkin had some events play out in one week that actually took weeks and weeks to play out. But, it created the dramatic tension Sorkin wanted.

As for the radio presentation, I have never seen someone in a lead or major part of a radio play not have a script in their hand. But here, Lucy works like she memorized all the lines beforehand.
As an aside, when US actor Glenn Langan (Mystery is My Hobby) went to Australia, Grace Gibson wanted to strangle him when she realized he was trying to memorize all of his lines and not work with the script. It slowed everything down and added unnecessary risk to the production.
I don't doubt that Lucy was deeply familiar with that week's script and contributed mightily in the edits and the rehearsals before airtime.
The person acting on stage had a music stand with their script. That was very uncommon.
As far as emoting for the audience, that was very common in comedy and variety programs. They still played to the audience like they were in a theater with expressions and movements, but they had a script in their hand. Most really good radio actors had theatrical experience which was the foundation of their skill, but the radio actor built on that with knowing how to use their voice.

As far as Lucy being involved in working the scripts and the scenes, she did a Suspense that showed her skills in this regard. In 1944-01-13 Dime a Dance, she made made suggestions for changes that resulted in William Spier re-writing the script for the Thursday broadcast. But Spier was still making changes as the show was being broadcast, and Ball read the last three pages cold, without rehearsal. We only have the Thursday east coast broadcast (Suspense was East on Thursdays and West on Mondays in those first 10 months of the Roma run). We don't have a pre-production script as submitted to see what changes they may have made.  It would be great if we could find the West broadcast to find out if there were any other changes between the Thursday and Monday productions. We don't have an AFRS broadcast -- we did a lot of research on the origins of the AFRS releases, and sometimes they used Thursday's and sometimes they used Monday's. Finding the network West or if AFRS used the West broadcast would shed a lot of light on how the episode changed under her influence. Spier would not have accepted this much input from everyone; he did from people like his friend Orson Welles, but not many others. He obviously respected her insights greatly. He also used her in "Ten Grand" on Suspense and also "Angel Face" when he did his year for Philip Morris Playhouse. Unfortunately, a recording of that PMP episode does not exist.

Some of Lucy's surviving radio credits can be seen at https://radiogoldin.library.umkc.edu/Home/RadioGoldin_Records?searchString=Ball,%20Lucille&type=Artists&count=199


--


Re: Being the Ricardos

Joe Webb
 

McCambridge was one of the absolute best. She probably did that with Tommy to make him feel more at ease and to give a better and more natural performance. Great story.
--


Re: Michael Coates

Jim Wood
 

Very sorry to hear that. Our condolences to his family

 

Jim

 

From: main@OldTimeRadioResearchers.groups.io <main@OldTimeRadioResearchers.groups.io> On Behalf Of Wild West Designs
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2021 12:07 PM
To: main@oldtimeradioresearchers.groups.io
Subject: Re: [OldTimeRadioResearchers] Michael Coates

 

Oh no.  I had received quite a lot of better shows through his collections.  My condolences to the family.

Evan

 

On 2021-12-28 09:12 AM, Brian Kavanaugh via groups.io wrote:

This sad news was announced yesterday in the Facebook group by Joe Wehberg.

 

Sad to report that Michael Coates, who contributed many shows to this site passed away yesterday.  Michael was a South Baltimore boy who grew up just around the corner from me.  We were in our late 50s before we found out that we had both been OTR fans since we were teens.  He had a real talent for making old shows sound new.  RIP Michael!

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